Talk:Joseph Smith and money-digging
Not sure how this could be integrated, but this was posted by Deconstructor over at ExMormon.org:
In response to denials of Joseph Smith's confession, Randy Jordan explains:
1. Mormon apologists saying that Ingersoll was an "aggrieved former neighbor of the Smiths" has no foundation in truth. Ingersoll's attitude when swearing his affidavit was more of bemusement than bitterness over the way Smith transformed himself from a poor-man's fortune-teller to a Biblical-style "prophet."
2. Mormon apologist allegations that Hurlbut gathered his affidavits with "malicious intent" is moot because of the fact that the affidavits were sworn before justices of the peace, and the testators were legally responsible for their statements.
3. Ingersoll's account of the confrontation between Smith and Isaac Hale is corroborated by Hale's own affidavit. Also, Hale swore his affidavit at Harmony, Pennsylvania, and Ingersoll swore his at Manchester, NY (where he lived, some 80 miles away.) Mormon apologists cannot claim that the two affidavits were contaminated by the "malicious" Hurlbut, because Hurlbut never went to Harmony and never met Hale. But because they were sworn independently of each other, and yet corroborate each other, they are highly credible.
4. Ingersoll's, Hale's, and numerous other affidavits from Smith's 1820's acquaintances were published in Eber D. Howe's 1834 "Mormonism Unveiled" (which can be read in full on the late Bill William's website at http://www.concordance.com/mormon.htm
5. Ingersoll's affidavit was quoted in the Official History of the Church. In addition to that, both Ingersoll's and Hale's affidavits were quoted in the February 2000 "Ensign" magazine,in an article dealing with Smith's Pennsylvania experiences. (Read the article at www.lds.org.) Although the "Ensign" article is careful to not quote the parts of those affidavits telling of Smith's "glass-looking" or his admission of fraud, the very fact that church apologists use those affidavits as credible historical sources negate any attempts to wholesale dismiss them as unreliable (in other words, "cherry-picking".) Therefore, when Mormon apologists opinion that the affidavits have been "discredited at worst, not taken seriously at best," perhaps the should tell that to the GAs and scholars who approve material for publication in the "Ensign."
6. While Mormon apologists contend that Smith never outright admitted his fraud, or at least argue that that admission came via the hearsay testimony of Ingersoll, Hale, etc., the fact that Smith's "peep-stoning" was a fraud is evidenced by the fact that Smith never found any buried treasures or anything else of value. Also, another instance of Smith's admission of fraud is the account of his 1826 "glass-looking" trial at Bainbridge, where he admitted that his activity was a fraud, expressed contrition, and promised the judge to cease the activity---and yet, a mere 2 years later, he was claiming to translate the "golden plates" with the same "peep-stone in the hat" business he had used in his glass-looking scam, according to eyewitnesses such as Emma Smith, David Whitmer, and Joseph Knight. See http://www.irr.org/mit/divination.html
7. For decades, Mormon apologists have attempted to discredit the numerous affidavits concerning Smith's 1820's peep-stoning and money-digging activities by attacking Hurlbut or Howe's motives or character---opining that Hurlbut "invented" the affidavits or "coached" the testators. However, that argument is negated by the fact that Hurlbut never even joined the Mormonite church until March 1833,in Ohio, and he didn't travel to NY to interview Smith's acquaintances until the following November. The reason that's relevant is that many, many accounts of Smith's peep-stoning, money-digging, occult activities, and details of how he produced his "Gold Bible" had been published by 1830-31, before Hurlbut or Howe were even factors in history. A few sites where you can read some of those accounts:
http://www.lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/NY/courier.htm
http://www.lavazone2.com/dbroadhu/NY/miscNYS1.htm#090229
[edit] If we want a good article
This could be a good article, and to make this happen we need to find a way to integrate these quotes into an article-like format. Jpb (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2006 (PST)
[edit] Addition
I'd like to add this article but the spam filter objects:
http://omninerd.com/2006/06/11/articles/55
-Aaronshaf 06:10, 13 June 2006 (PDT)
